There’s a lot in here that lands hard, especially the part about Eve. Not as the villain, but as the first human to lean into freedom, agency, and consequence. That flips the whole narrative, and it deserves to be flipped. She didn’t fall. She woke up.
The idea of human nature has been so loaded with religious baggage and binary thinking. Are we blank slates or preloaded sinners? Divine or depraved? But maybe what we’re born with is potential. Not some fixed essence, but the raw material for becoming. Evolutionary science and existentialist philosophy actually meet here. They both point to the same truth: who we are is shaped in relationship, through choice and reflection.
What has always disturbed me about the doctrine of original sin isn’t just the shame it instills. It’s the way it encourages people to stay passive. If you’re born bad and can’t choose good without outside intervention, then you’re off the hook. Someone else has to fix you. That’s a great business model for religion, but a terrible framework for personal responsibility.
This piece is a solid reminder that we’re not born broken. We’re born capable. And what we do with that capacity is what defines us.
The story of Adam and Eve originated with the Mesopotamians. It was handed down by oral tradition over many generations. We all know how a story can change over time, when passed down by word of mouth.
The part of the story that seems to be missing is about how Adam and Eve lost their innocence. Was it from eating forbidden fruit, or did it come from the realization that you are no longer a child. You become an adult. With that, you become responsible for your actions. Children can be excused because they lack maturity and understanding. Adults don't get that free pass.
RE: Why would God put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden, knowing full well that Adam and Eve would do the very thing he told them not to?
Here's my take: He didn't. The Tree was already there and he couldn't uproot it. It was planted by an equally powerful divine force within the Earth itself (Gaia, perhaps an even more ancient deity, the Divine Feminine, idk).
Granted I don't have a degree in theology, and any spiritual wisdom that makes sense to me comes from spending a lot of time in nature.
If you are going to consider Eve in the light of human choice and consciousness, you cannot, dare I say should not, ignore Lilith, who also made a major choice, first. In your interesting consideration of philosophy and religion, how in good conscience can you eliminate myth as in mythology and psychology, (archetypal and depth) from your discussion?
I’m going to have to chew on this one, but one of your statements stood out to me: “ Firstly, I believe the story was meant to be taken figuratively or allegorically, not literally.”
I realized that I might actually share that opinion about life in general. Thanks.
For me the Adam and Eve story is a very human story, with Adam and Eve being human archetypes. We can all identify with Adam and Eve in that we have been placed in a beautiful garden, a world of innocence, but have broken rules along the way, and tried to hide our misdeeds, having a sense of shame from being caught out, which led us to leaving the blissful paradise of innocence we inherited.
Whether there was a literal Adam and Eve is impossible to know but Jesus and the Apostles mention them as the progenitors of modern humans, considering them the original couple.
Modern science tells us a different story to the Biblical one in that we have an ancient history, and a bloody one at that, spanning hundreds of thousands of years. For those of us with heritage outside of Africa, we have Neanderthal and/or Denisovan DNA showing cross-breeding with other hominid species, and even these appeared to have some sort of religious or spiritual belief system, but our homo sapien ancestors probably wiped them out.
'Sin' for me is essentially 'selfishness' which is a survival gene as in Dawkins 'Selfish Gene', whereas the Christian concept of 'benevolent love' or altruism cuts across indulgent selfishness. John, the last surviving Apostle who wrote his epistle some time after Peter and Paul had been executed by Nero, concludes that God is Love. If revelation is progressive, which I think it is, the God of the Old Testament displays the antithesis of Benevolence, but altruism is clearly evident in the life of Jesus and his call to discipleship begins there. When we do acts of love, we do the acts of God.
WOMAN: “What would men be without women? Scarce, sir...mighty scarce.” ― Mark Twain
Your deconstruction argument seems a good place for post-modernity to begin again, Jim.
And for the sake of a nuanced argument that places good humor at the forefront of debate. Imagine Adam on his deathbed telling his Grandchildren the truth about the legendary story of Eve and the Serpent.
"Eve is simply a word that personified Wisdom. Hence the 'riddle-me-this' idea that she was created from my spare rib? It was a joke told by the reality-wise that simply took on a life of its own. Especially the bit about the Serpent characterization of our human nervous system. Or the serpentine-like awakening power of Kundalini energy, as they call it in the East.
And I confess I did have a lot of fun with my spare rib during my youth. I have to admit, I impregnated quiet a few beautiful women with that useful tool of creation. I mean what red blooded man in his right mind can resist the sight of Women showing Men how Life is Truly Twerking Good. With their more innately embodied sense-of-reality. Its quite Sensory and quite Perfectly Natural."
"So why do women think of men as useful tools who are naturally prone to being fools." our Grandad. "And do you mean Eve and the Serpent are actually one in same Creature? That the good fruit of experiential wisdom was within her all along?"
And imagine Mary and Jesus sharing a few cups of wine after a full day of teaching parables, about how the Earth is quite naturally Heaven. With Mary expressing her dismay that people seemed to be fearfully, ignorantly, and suspiciously avoiding the implicit meaning of the John the Baptist's, "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at Hand."
"Christ! Its like trying to raise the Dead in the Head!" She said.
There’s a lot in here that lands hard, especially the part about Eve. Not as the villain, but as the first human to lean into freedom, agency, and consequence. That flips the whole narrative, and it deserves to be flipped. She didn’t fall. She woke up.
The idea of human nature has been so loaded with religious baggage and binary thinking. Are we blank slates or preloaded sinners? Divine or depraved? But maybe what we’re born with is potential. Not some fixed essence, but the raw material for becoming. Evolutionary science and existentialist philosophy actually meet here. They both point to the same truth: who we are is shaped in relationship, through choice and reflection.
What has always disturbed me about the doctrine of original sin isn’t just the shame it instills. It’s the way it encourages people to stay passive. If you’re born bad and can’t choose good without outside intervention, then you’re off the hook. Someone else has to fix you. That’s a great business model for religion, but a terrible framework for personal responsibility.
This piece is a solid reminder that we’re not born broken. We’re born capable. And what we do with that capacity is what defines us.
The story of Adam and Eve originated with the Mesopotamians. It was handed down by oral tradition over many generations. We all know how a story can change over time, when passed down by word of mouth.
The part of the story that seems to be missing is about how Adam and Eve lost their innocence. Was it from eating forbidden fruit, or did it come from the realization that you are no longer a child. You become an adult. With that, you become responsible for your actions. Children can be excused because they lack maturity and understanding. Adults don't get that free pass.
I learned in seminary that the only true, reasonable thing we can say about God is that God knows us and we know that. Everything else is speculation.
RE: Why would God put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden, knowing full well that Adam and Eve would do the very thing he told them not to?
Here's my take: He didn't. The Tree was already there and he couldn't uproot it. It was planted by an equally powerful divine force within the Earth itself (Gaia, perhaps an even more ancient deity, the Divine Feminine, idk).
Granted I don't have a degree in theology, and any spiritual wisdom that makes sense to me comes from spending a lot of time in nature.
If you are going to consider Eve in the light of human choice and consciousness, you cannot, dare I say should not, ignore Lilith, who also made a major choice, first. In your interesting consideration of philosophy and religion, how in good conscience can you eliminate myth as in mythology and psychology, (archetypal and depth) from your discussion?
All the best…
Andrea
I’m going to have to chew on this one, but one of your statements stood out to me: “ Firstly, I believe the story was meant to be taken figuratively or allegorically, not literally.”
I realized that I might actually share that opinion about life in general. Thanks.
For me the Adam and Eve story is a very human story, with Adam and Eve being human archetypes. We can all identify with Adam and Eve in that we have been placed in a beautiful garden, a world of innocence, but have broken rules along the way, and tried to hide our misdeeds, having a sense of shame from being caught out, which led us to leaving the blissful paradise of innocence we inherited.
Whether there was a literal Adam and Eve is impossible to know but Jesus and the Apostles mention them as the progenitors of modern humans, considering them the original couple.
Modern science tells us a different story to the Biblical one in that we have an ancient history, and a bloody one at that, spanning hundreds of thousands of years. For those of us with heritage outside of Africa, we have Neanderthal and/or Denisovan DNA showing cross-breeding with other hominid species, and even these appeared to have some sort of religious or spiritual belief system, but our homo sapien ancestors probably wiped them out.
'Sin' for me is essentially 'selfishness' which is a survival gene as in Dawkins 'Selfish Gene', whereas the Christian concept of 'benevolent love' or altruism cuts across indulgent selfishness. John, the last surviving Apostle who wrote his epistle some time after Peter and Paul had been executed by Nero, concludes that God is Love. If revelation is progressive, which I think it is, the God of the Old Testament displays the antithesis of Benevolence, but altruism is clearly evident in the life of Jesus and his call to discipleship begins there. When we do acts of love, we do the acts of God.
WOMAN: “What would men be without women? Scarce, sir...mighty scarce.” ― Mark Twain
Your deconstruction argument seems a good place for post-modernity to begin again, Jim.
And for the sake of a nuanced argument that places good humor at the forefront of debate. Imagine Adam on his deathbed telling his Grandchildren the truth about the legendary story of Eve and the Serpent.
"Eve is simply a word that personified Wisdom. Hence the 'riddle-me-this' idea that she was created from my spare rib? It was a joke told by the reality-wise that simply took on a life of its own. Especially the bit about the Serpent characterization of our human nervous system. Or the serpentine-like awakening power of Kundalini energy, as they call it in the East.
And I confess I did have a lot of fun with my spare rib during my youth. I have to admit, I impregnated quiet a few beautiful women with that useful tool of creation. I mean what red blooded man in his right mind can resist the sight of Women showing Men how Life is Truly Twerking Good. With their more innately embodied sense-of-reality. Its quite Sensory and quite Perfectly Natural."
"So why do women think of men as useful tools who are naturally prone to being fools." our Grandad. "And do you mean Eve and the Serpent are actually one in same Creature? That the good fruit of experiential wisdom was within her all along?"
And imagine Mary and Jesus sharing a few cups of wine after a full day of teaching parables, about how the Earth is quite naturally Heaven. With Mary expressing her dismay that people seemed to be fearfully, ignorantly, and suspiciously avoiding the implicit meaning of the John the Baptist's, "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at Hand."
"Christ! Its like trying to raise the Dead in the Head!" She said.
"You mean in the place of a Skull?" said Jesus.
This is truly wonderful. You know my experience: TNWWY(ATNW) I appreciate this in-depth exploration. Original sin is bullshit. 👌🏼