I think one of the most comforting excerpts I read that helped me dash my lingering threads of fear over afterlife consequences was from Meditations, when Marcus Aurelius wrote, "Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
Wonderful summary of why I no longer claim to be a Christian. Just being an honest Good person helping everyone I can is what I try daily to do. GOD WITH AN EXTRA “O” BECOMES GOOD.
You’re not just arguing theology. You’re pulling people out of a burning building their pastors swore was love.
Naming hell as manufactured fear, not divine truth. Calling out the psychological hostage-taking. Refusing the lie that God is an abuser with better branding.
That’s liberation liturgy.
Blessed be the ones who walked out of eternal torment and realized it was just a church basement with good acoustics.
I admit that part of the reason is the unresolved trauma from belief in not only hell, but all the other toxic Christian beliefs that I was exposed to. My experience with Christianity left me with severe depression and hopelessness. I no longer believe the stuff that caused me so much anxiety and despair, but I do not feel that the new Jesus cares about me anymore than the Christian one did. I read all this stuff about the peace people have found in learning that they are not separate from God and they the Kingdom of Heaven is right there waiting for you now, inside you..,blah blah, blah.
I hope you will be able, one day, to simply let the Christian nonsense go... I was both sexually abused and trafficked by people who went to church regularly... one went to mass every day! I hope you will be able to find an 'anchor' that soothes your heart and soul. I found mine in nature. I wish you love.
The “Jenga Hell Tower” is a precarious one, that always ultimately falls!
After losing my belief in the LDS church, Satan was the first theological concept to dissolve for me. What strikes me as I read your post, is realizing that Mormons don’t have the same level of fear of hell in the way that general Christianity does. We fear failure much more. Mormons’ fear is much more achievement based—the threat of getting a less reward and separation from your family, e.g. If you don’t do everything we tell you, you won’t go to the highest degrees of heaven. Each level is lesser. Really, the only hell Mormons believe in is for non Mormons who are just awaiting their Mormon baptism for the dead (back on earth), or for those that don’t accept conversion to the religion.
The true Mormon hell, aka Outer Darkness, is only reserved for a select group: people who once had a testimony of Mormon theology and then rejected them.
It’s all fear based though, and most fear based constructed beliefs are designed to control.
I have just one dilemma, which is probably addressed herein; however perhaps I could use an assist to locate it.
Understanding the abstract concepts outlined here are possible, with a healthy neurochemically functioning brain. I’m wondering how individuals plagued by imbalances in neural pathways, such as trauma, disease or addiction, can find their way to peace about this critical spiritual issue.
Perhaps I can find a relevant discussion in a separate letter. I’ll look.
The only thing I found more absurd was the Flood and Ark story. We can usually find lies by noting the subsequent lies told to resolve the inconsistencies from the original. The Tower of Babel story was concocted to explain why there were so many different languages when only a few people survived the Flood together.
The Bible didn’t have hell because it didn’t need it. God was doing fine punishing sinners or the non-submissive. He seemed to enjoy it. He didn’t need to outsource it. Therefore, the only purpose to teach it was to terrorize those they wanted to love god and to hold back the genocides and murders and give an evil proxy to those who couldn’t read the Bible for themselves. The poor and children. The Hell story was violence put upon the children. It was nothing more than child abuse for the purpose of indoctrination. It had nothing to do with morality. Morality was based on laws. Do this, don’t do that. The horrors committed by humans and God are generally delivered without comment or judgment. Jews don’t have a devil or hell. Hell lies directly at Christianity’s feet. Jesus’ depiction of a place of “weeping” and “gnashing of teeth,” tells us that it is a psychological and emotional torment; it doesn’t kill us. Here Jesus reveals his need for control. What is being built is a cult.
I get why humans created hell to punish people who commit evil acts but why did we decide non-believers need to be punished as well? The final resolution in many
religion’s isn’t that murderers go to eternal hell while good people go to heaven. The end is all the people who don’t bow down to my god burn.
For me hell isn't a place of the metaphorical realm it is an idea that exists outside the shape of humanities viewpoint. It is every bad choice you ever made every guilty regret you ever held onto. Every active selfish sabotage you create to affect the community around you. Every single hurt and trauma as well as. Every bad memory that manifests itself physically around you. Every spirit or "ghost" you believe in. My own opinion on ghosts and spirits differ from those of the religious type. Every single major catastrophe and disaster leading up to the 21st century leaves its mark. My friends directed me to what I already know inherently from revelations. I am of the mind that as dark as this era is we are coming to the end of it. Keep the reciepts of truth and keep posting what you do Jim. As a writer of the left leaning side of the equation I will do my best to continue writing. Stay safe and peace.
Hell is an imaginary made up bedtime story no different than Santa Claus or the Pearly Gates of Heaven…? Too simplistic…? Not enough words …? I count 5…Buddhism…Hinduism…Judaism…Christianity and Islam…?
Like 5 fingers on the same hand that are now all clenching into a fist. The hand of Man that has a death grip on every single one of us in the guise of deterrence…? A doctrine of MADness that we all love to ignore that is really nothing more than a suicide pact…WHY…? Too difficult a question to ask…? Why…why why is that…?
What if the fruit of knowledge of good and evil that curses humanity is the Bible and/or religious authority as such and hell is the state of the world under this curse of weaponized religious authority?
Jim's commentary is excellent, especially his latest on Catholicism. But one correction. He says hell is not mentioned in the Bible. Not true. Read The Sermon on the Mount. Christ mentions it twice.....John ( Grace' husband.)
Excellent article. The longer I’m away from it, the more I realize it didn’t make any sense. I still have that lingering “what if I’m wrong” fear at times. But deep down, I truly don’t believe I am.
I think one of the most comforting excerpts I read that helped me dash my lingering threads of fear over afterlife consequences was from Meditations, when Marcus Aurelius wrote, "Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
Wonderful summary of why I no longer claim to be a Christian. Just being an honest Good person helping everyone I can is what I try daily to do. GOD WITH AN EXTRA “O” BECOMES GOOD.
That’s holy work, Jim.
You’re not just arguing theology. You’re pulling people out of a burning building their pastors swore was love.
Naming hell as manufactured fear, not divine truth. Calling out the psychological hostage-taking. Refusing the lie that God is an abuser with better branding.
That’s liberation liturgy.
Blessed be the ones who walked out of eternal torment and realized it was just a church basement with good acoustics.
this is solid, thank you... "any religion that is built on the premise of separation from God is a house of cards."
also, not sure i'd seen that nietzche 'kingdom of heaven' quote. (btw, that was just the first time i ever spelled nietzsche without looking it up.)
If heaven is within us, then why am I so sad ?
I admit that part of the reason is the unresolved trauma from belief in not only hell, but all the other toxic Christian beliefs that I was exposed to. My experience with Christianity left me with severe depression and hopelessness. I no longer believe the stuff that caused me so much anxiety and despair, but I do not feel that the new Jesus cares about me anymore than the Christian one did. I read all this stuff about the peace people have found in learning that they are not separate from God and they the Kingdom of Heaven is right there waiting for you now, inside you..,blah blah, blah.
All I feel inside is pain
I hope you will be able, one day, to simply let the Christian nonsense go... I was both sexually abused and trafficked by people who went to church regularly... one went to mass every day! I hope you will be able to find an 'anchor' that soothes your heart and soul. I found mine in nature. I wish you love.
Thank you for your voice! Keep speaking…. My heart is at peace knowing that my heart has felt that we create our own heaven and hell.
The “Jenga Hell Tower” is a precarious one, that always ultimately falls!
After losing my belief in the LDS church, Satan was the first theological concept to dissolve for me. What strikes me as I read your post, is realizing that Mormons don’t have the same level of fear of hell in the way that general Christianity does. We fear failure much more. Mormons’ fear is much more achievement based—the threat of getting a less reward and separation from your family, e.g. If you don’t do everything we tell you, you won’t go to the highest degrees of heaven. Each level is lesser. Really, the only hell Mormons believe in is for non Mormons who are just awaiting their Mormon baptism for the dead (back on earth), or for those that don’t accept conversion to the religion.
The true Mormon hell, aka Outer Darkness, is only reserved for a select group: people who once had a testimony of Mormon theology and then rejected them.
It’s all fear based though, and most fear based constructed beliefs are designed to control.
Roll me up and smoke me when I die
And if anyone don't like it, just look 'em in the eye
I didn't come here, and I ain't leavin'
So don't sit around and cry
Just roll me up and smoke me when I die.
Excellent read. Thanks so much, Jim.
I have just one dilemma, which is probably addressed herein; however perhaps I could use an assist to locate it.
Understanding the abstract concepts outlined here are possible, with a healthy neurochemically functioning brain. I’m wondering how individuals plagued by imbalances in neural pathways, such as trauma, disease or addiction, can find their way to peace about this critical spiritual issue.
Perhaps I can find a relevant discussion in a separate letter. I’ll look.
The only thing I found more absurd was the Flood and Ark story. We can usually find lies by noting the subsequent lies told to resolve the inconsistencies from the original. The Tower of Babel story was concocted to explain why there were so many different languages when only a few people survived the Flood together.
The Bible didn’t have hell because it didn’t need it. God was doing fine punishing sinners or the non-submissive. He seemed to enjoy it. He didn’t need to outsource it. Therefore, the only purpose to teach it was to terrorize those they wanted to love god and to hold back the genocides and murders and give an evil proxy to those who couldn’t read the Bible for themselves. The poor and children. The Hell story was violence put upon the children. It was nothing more than child abuse for the purpose of indoctrination. It had nothing to do with morality. Morality was based on laws. Do this, don’t do that. The horrors committed by humans and God are generally delivered without comment or judgment. Jews don’t have a devil or hell. Hell lies directly at Christianity’s feet. Jesus’ depiction of a place of “weeping” and “gnashing of teeth,” tells us that it is a psychological and emotional torment; it doesn’t kill us. Here Jesus reveals his need for control. What is being built is a cult.
I get why humans created hell to punish people who commit evil acts but why did we decide non-believers need to be punished as well? The final resolution in many
religion’s isn’t that murderers go to eternal hell while good people go to heaven. The end is all the people who don’t bow down to my god burn.
For me hell isn't a place of the metaphorical realm it is an idea that exists outside the shape of humanities viewpoint. It is every bad choice you ever made every guilty regret you ever held onto. Every active selfish sabotage you create to affect the community around you. Every single hurt and trauma as well as. Every bad memory that manifests itself physically around you. Every spirit or "ghost" you believe in. My own opinion on ghosts and spirits differ from those of the religious type. Every single major catastrophe and disaster leading up to the 21st century leaves its mark. My friends directed me to what I already know inherently from revelations. I am of the mind that as dark as this era is we are coming to the end of it. Keep the reciepts of truth and keep posting what you do Jim. As a writer of the left leaning side of the equation I will do my best to continue writing. Stay safe and peace.
Hell is an imaginary made up bedtime story no different than Santa Claus or the Pearly Gates of Heaven…? Too simplistic…? Not enough words …? I count 5…Buddhism…Hinduism…Judaism…Christianity and Islam…?
Like 5 fingers on the same hand that are now all clenching into a fist. The hand of Man that has a death grip on every single one of us in the guise of deterrence…? A doctrine of MADness that we all love to ignore that is really nothing more than a suicide pact…WHY…? Too difficult a question to ask…? Why…why why is that…?
🔮👀✨⚠️?❔❓Where is our🤷🏽♂️🌏🤷🏼♀️enemy…🤔🙏🏼👇
What if the fruit of knowledge of good and evil that curses humanity is the Bible and/or religious authority as such and hell is the state of the world under this curse of weaponized religious authority?
Jim's commentary is excellent, especially his latest on Catholicism. But one correction. He says hell is not mentioned in the Bible. Not true. Read The Sermon on the Mount. Christ mentions it twice.....John ( Grace' husband.)
PS Of course Christ may be speaking metaphorically about hell....John
Excellent article. The longer I’m away from it, the more I realize it didn’t make any sense. I still have that lingering “what if I’m wrong” fear at times. But deep down, I truly don’t believe I am.